Help
Sign In
balance
November 2009 
Oh my dear, dear Janak, let's think about this!
Posted on May 20th, 2008
by 
martha
martha
OK, here's the deal: In a recent blog, I once again got onto the subject of having slain a cockroach. Once again, a larger member of the insect kingdom or queendom, whatever, has given its life for the sake of philosophical and spiritual heuristic exploration.
So, Janak (aka Crudebliss) comes along and reminds me of the bad karma created when we unthinkingly behave in ways that cause the demise of insects. He told me that great spiritual leaders in India have chosen to walk barefooted, and some on sand only, so that they would never crush an innocent bug.
And so I got right to the point and made it really clear that I killed the bug on purpose. And then I asked Janak what penalty there was for that. And he explained that there is a prescribed penance, which is not eating or drinking for two days.
Now here's the kicker: Janak is doing my penance of not eating or drinking for two days FOR ME.
WOW!
I didn't ask him to, you know. He volunteered!
Janak, I DO think you are wonderfully sweet and kind to volunteer to do this, but look! I'm a real sinner! I'm not a pirate for nothin' you know! I would not choose to go without food and water for two days for myself, simply because it's inconvenient and somewhat unpleasant. And sincerely, I'm the laziest, most creature-comfort oriented creature in the WORLD! I'm sitting here drinking a Diet Coke as I write, even.
Janak, what you are doing is called, I believe, "casting pearls to swine." Your kind actions are the pearls, and I'm the swine. You see, I don't UNDERSTAND why it's bad to kill bugs. God made millions and millions of them, and some of them are really nasty creatures--partiularly the 3" sewer roaches that crawl up from my bathroom drain! They aren't cute like that little guy up there. They have these grab-hooks on their legs and they fly.
So how can a person do FOR another person what they will not, and actually cannot do? Because IF I were to fast because of killing a cockroach, I would be a big hypocrite, as I don't really, in my heart know WHY I would be fasting!
YOU can't do my spiritual growth FOR me, my love! Only I can do it, and it may take many lifetimes, and I may, as you once warned me, be reborn as a tree. But what's so bad about that? I wouldn't mind being a tree. Trees rock.
But with all that said, truly I am honored and I really don't know what to say! I say "Don't do it Janak! Please don't do it!" And I've explained to you already why a ask you not to. But then, it's a free-will type of journey, and I can't tell you to eat and drink or not.
BUT, one thing: Because you are such a sweet man, I promise you Janak, within the next 48 hours, I will find at least one really nice thing to do that I don't particularly feel like doing, and I will do it in your name. And I will do it kindly and with an open and loving heart.
So, Janak (aka Crudebliss) comes along and reminds me of the bad karma created when we unthinkingly behave in ways that cause the demise of insects. He told me that great spiritual leaders in India have chosen to walk barefooted, and some on sand only, so that they would never crush an innocent bug.
And so I got right to the point and made it really clear that I killed the bug on purpose. And then I asked Janak what penalty there was for that. And he explained that there is a prescribed penance, which is not eating or drinking for two days.
Now here's the kicker: Janak is doing my penance of not eating or drinking for two days FOR ME.
WOW!
I didn't ask him to, you know. He volunteered!
Janak, I DO think you are wonderfully sweet and kind to volunteer to do this, but look! I'm a real sinner! I'm not a pirate for nothin' you know! I would not choose to go without food and water for two days for myself, simply because it's inconvenient and somewhat unpleasant. And sincerely, I'm the laziest, most creature-comfort oriented creature in the WORLD! I'm sitting here drinking a Diet Coke as I write, even.
Janak, what you are doing is called, I believe, "casting pearls to swine." Your kind actions are the pearls, and I'm the swine. You see, I don't UNDERSTAND why it's bad to kill bugs. God made millions and millions of them, and some of them are really nasty creatures--partiularly the 3" sewer roaches that crawl up from my bathroom drain! They aren't cute like that little guy up there. They have these grab-hooks on their legs and they fly.
So how can a person do FOR another person what they will not, and actually cannot do? Because IF I were to fast because of killing a cockroach, I would be a big hypocrite, as I don't really, in my heart know WHY I would be fasting!
YOU can't do my spiritual growth FOR me, my love! Only I can do it, and it may take many lifetimes, and I may, as you once warned me, be reborn as a tree. But what's so bad about that? I wouldn't mind being a tree. Trees rock.
But with all that said, truly I am honored and I really don't know what to say! I say "Don't do it Janak! Please don't do it!" And I've explained to you already why a ask you not to. But then, it's a free-will type of journey, and I can't tell you to eat and drink or not.
BUT, one thing: Because you are such a sweet man, I promise you Janak, within the next 48 hours, I will find at least one really nice thing to do that I don't particularly feel like doing, and I will do it in your name. And I will do it kindly and with an open and loving heart.
Access: Public
I think I'll keep my mouth shut or someone is going to starve :) Can my tree be by your tree, Martha? btw, do we get to choose what kind of tree?
Nice blog. Interesting. I have been in conversations with Buddhists about killing bugs, and it is all a big useless exercise in talking. Things die, get killed intentionally and unintentionally. Continue to cut the grass. even though there are millions of bug in the lawn.
Personally, I would accept his offer graciously and say “thank you so much, that is so kind of you” and move on and do my own thing, and let the other fast, or whatever if that is what they want to do. But a (real) Buddhist would never make you feel bad about anything. You are a good person = don’t worry too much about your karma ;>)
yeah, let's get a grip. these are bugs, we don't want to live with them anywhere near us. period. we move on. love ya hon!
Thanks for your comments. This could be an interesting conversation. I suppose the argument I'm hearing, in a nutshell, is something like “don't worry about it. 'The food chain' and 'general bad luck' have been starring together as “The Grim Reaper” for years. This arrangement is kind of like when they have twins playing the same single part on a tv searies. And then, additionally, we complex animals get to kill the simple ones because they are so simple and bothersome. We're part of the Grim Reaper act. But then, on the other hand, why wouldn't we be a part of it? Would we separate ourselves from the most basic processes of life?
The one thing I DON'T want to do is to disresepct in any way the wonderful gesture that Janak has made. Nobody has ever offered to fast without food or water for me before, and it is really, really kind!
Martha,cool blog!
I've have always had spiders anywhere I've lived. Most of the time I just leave them be,sometimes i'll lift them out and place them outdoors.We had a real big one this winter in the old place,I didn't have the heart to put him outside and he became the family pet :-) If I find a cockroach I would not kill it,or maybe i would.I would also hire a bug guy;-)…since if there's one there has gotta be tons….and I really wouldn't want to have them as pets.
So this leads me to the next question do exterminators have bad Karma? Cuz I know one and he is the nicest most generous guy,the type of guy people say”This guy is so nice he wouldn't even harm a fly” too funny :-)
Yeh, I remember thinking, WOH, that's quite an offer there, to do 2 days fasting penance for somebody else's 'sin'! I am not sure if I get the 'logic' for it, but I guess that's Janak's belief system at work…?
I'm with the food chain, in the wrong place at the wrong time corner myself. In the Tropics it isn't a seasonal thing; we co-exist with critters. We share the space. I'm down the line in the chain in their view, to keep their species going. But if a bugger can cause disease, thus impacting on my species' longevity, I think I have the right to straighten him out!
I'm pretty certain 'her' instincts are not guilt-ridden when she has to feed directly off me [this would be mosquitoes in this case] or from my food store, leaving tiny droplets of… stuff!
I tend to spray the buggers and then they can run away and die, hopefully with less agony … and not before my eyes. It's much more humane. ; ) Whatever!
I don't endorse unnecessary killing though; just where harm is some reasonable possibility. [Lizards roam freely in my world ; ) ]
sherri
This is such an interesting blog, Martha. I'm doomed to be a tree (I would like to be a weepeing willow if I get a choice, a good climber for generations and generations of kids to play monkey in) for many lives because when the flies fill my house in August I swat the hell out of them, my husband even hang sticky things for them to get stuck and die on. (which I promptly take down because they are unsightly) And as mosquitoes carry the West Nile Virus here in Idaho I swat them and spray them too. And the ants that keep invading my strawberry patch and eat my strawberries before I get the chance - well be gone! Good thing darling Janak doesn't know me or he'd starve to death.
This reminded me somewhat of the Mormon religion so popular in this region. I understand that they feel they can baptize dead people to save their souls. Hmmm.
Here's to sweet well-meaning friends like Janak & to lovely sinning swines like Martha.
ayla
Martha is being Martha and Janak is being Janak.
how interesting they both are.
offering endless variety
not good or bad
just as is
we kill by simply breathing in and out. But that process also brings birth. I have to agree that intentions rule supreme.
Mimi, I'm laughing out loud! (gee, and I didn't even abbreviate it!) It's one of those belly laughs. What came to my mind was that no matter how much Buddhist detachment one brings to this blog and all its perspectives, there's always a tiny part of the mind that still feels how ABSURD we are being!!! :)
Maze, Yeah. It's all really complex. I like the part about that we bring about life as well.
Hi Ayla, those strawberries sound delicious! If the ants don't get 'em, I would. You'd need a pretty wide board to swat me away! :) That's interesting, the other issue: spiritual advancement by proxy. What occurs to me is that IF time is a mere device to enable the unfoldment of this world, and on another cosmic level everything is happening at once and there is no time or something like that, then IF a baptism was done–not in the deadness of sleeping ritual, but in an awakened state of LOVE, then maybe, it would have some positive effect? I mean, I AM so deeply touched just by the thought of the gesture! So he IS making a difference in my life through his intentions. Like Maze says, it's in the intentions.
sherri, I bet they have many more bugs in the tropics, and as you say, many bugs can threaten human health, and even human life. Do bugs who kill get reburn as a blade of grass? :) And maybe you get merit for killing them before they cause MORE destruction? And what about lions and other top carnivores?
BB, oh I love your story about the very sweet exterminator! Great irony! :)
“He told me that great spiritual leaders in India have chosen to walk barefooted, and some on sand only, so that they would never crush an innocent bug.”
Specifically, the people who practice this tradition are Jainists - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
i was thinking about this on the way to work today - i saw the remains of some poor animal who, for some reason, had made a very bad choice, attempting to cross a highway - starting with an exit ramp, and needless to say, did not make it.
did this animal, perhaps, live out a phase on the karmic wheel? was this animal perhaps a drunk driver in a former life? it was supposed to die there, or it wouldn't have.
i often view human beings as little bugs on the surface of the earth - and sometimes, the earth's movements wipe out a piece of our colony (i hate that Asia seems to continually take the brunt of it - why is that, i wonder?). likewise, sometimes when i step out my front door, as conscious of my surroundings and aware of the present as i may happen to be, i might still step on a bug. i don't have the option of barefoot-on-sand all the time.
Hi there visionarynetworks! Thank you for the link and ID on Janism. The animal that you were talking about that died in the road? Having experienced a cataclysmic and surely fatal auto accident and lived through it, I can tell you for sure that you don't really “feel” the impact as it happens. It just happens. It's the afterwords when you regain consciousness, and the days and weeks of pain afterwards that are painful. If you live. So what does the animal learn from suddenly not being here anymore? Does its soul think to itself in linear thought, “Oh my! I used to be a careless driver and now, indeed, I have died at the impact of a carreening auto?” I really don't think so. And even if it DID, what would it learn? And I agree with you about Asia getting all the don't-mess-with-mother-nature hits. What's with that?
well, a good two-thirds of me was being tongue-in-cheek re: that comment about the animal perhaps being a drunk driver in a former life… ;-)
Yeah, there are so many levels to this. It's hard to look at myself and find out whether I'm taking it “too seriously” or not… :)
Let me go stepp by step….
Diet coke…. well you should take a look at this….
39. I disallow you, you cola you, and the like - if you don't change
of course you have free willl if you still like it… But how about the sentance “i'am eating a raw pineaple slice as i type”? or “i'am drinking pure orange juice as i type”?.
Pearls to a Swine….
There lived a saint by the name Goparanund Swami…
devotees; out of affection; had this ritual of collecting the seeds of mangos that were eaten by the saints… However… they noticed that the seeds that were left behind by Goparanund Swami never germinated…. to the point that devotess stopped collecting his seeds at all…
The point is that; a saint likes something; and because of the greatness of this saint; a soul attains absolute liberation by just being in the Mango that pleased a saint's hunger.
This should be interesting although not for the ones who dislike graphic detail…
So you are my Mango baby :-)
As for “YOU can't do my spiritual growth FOR me”
i guess i believe in the Chaos theory… too much…
buddingspritelet : You are assigned a body of a tree… like if you have spread allot of love as a human but killed someone in this same life… then you get to be a Coco tree… your seeds will still spread love everywhere… :-) but you start from zero… for you have killed someone…. :-(
mimi : Precisly; Martha is a good person. I think that is why Jesus accepted to be nailed on the cross… He knew that mankind is a storehouse of sin but there was one way that He could solve the problem… and He accepted it in a heart beat….
But lets be clear on this… God has great book-keepers; otherwise the world would be a place of misery if everyone did what they wanted without consiquences. He has assigned them to their task and their task is to reflect what you do onto other's.
a life fealt pain that day…
the book keepers bell rings and a message is delivered to them…
Name : Martha
Age : {Censored}
Sin : Killed a roach
Action : “Swuat” by a rolled newspaper
Reaction after commiting sin : “Damn disgusting crawlers;”
The book keeper grinds his teeth; puts on His shoes lablled “Roach Lover” and looks for an opportunity to let dear Martha feel what the insect felt.
Nicole : Could it be that we are in their place… and They don't want us near them ? :-) interesting isn't it… Elephants in South Africa are slaughtered for they are over populating… but that rule…. i shall stop there… i'm just saying, life began as a single celled onganism after all…
May i indulge your senses in to this cute blog on earth…
B.B. : the bug guy… give him a copy of this…. 11. Vegetarianism; Scientifically
sherri : sherry lady…yes disease creating insects should be controlled…. with stuff like sonic sound repelers…etc… Did you know that bees are slowly dying out because of mobile phone towers…. i don't think i can do without mine… unless i become telapathic or become a saint or something..:-)
ayla :-)
mimi :-)
maze : Yes… the ones that die whilst breathing are single celled living organisms … see the Vegetarian link above… The bigger the brain the greater the pain receptors… however pain is pain… we should survive on the least feeling ones and that also to Survive and not to enjoy… for Lord Krishna says… even vegetarian food; consumed for pleasure and not survival is like eating pieces of sin…
visionarynetworks : Accidental killing is repaid by accidental hurt… like when you fall down “Accidentally” or hit a wall “Accidentally” :-)
OK i believe i have changed my mind…. i shall stop my fast for 2 days…. for this one day one has made my head ache dearly… and now i shall have a glass of water… it's 12:09am… so i have to be super quiete….. :-)
Love to love you guys… and GALS… :-)
martha : sorry i think i was commenting and you were commenting too so i missed your last comment…It is silly in a way yes… but with an eye for detail you will see that it's all an equation…
Programmers will get this concept,,,,
Remember when in computer classes we used to draw flow charts… input data, process and output information…..
The flowcharts get more complex and complex … with certain parts of the software called subroutines running on their own… eventually coming to a result though….
Our life is like these equations that are linked with every other equation (every other living being on the planet) based on your previous Karma's;
you get your surrounding,
your body type your relatives etc…
and based on your life's equation, you can only play in a subroutine defined by your past Karma's… e.g. you cannot visit the Castle of whales just because you want to… you have to use your limited 'sub-routine' to try e.g by being employed as a guard… etc…
You have free will… but that will has consequences and rewards awaiting… Hence i would suggest what Mahatma Gandhi once said….
“Simple living; high thinking”.
Once you be-little your self to live simply; many aspects of negative karma are stopped from being generated….
Your this life's desires and actions are your next life's architectural design
Hi Janak,
Thank you so much for coming by and adding your thoughts to this odd conversation. Let's see… I DO remember your blog about Coca Cola. I read it at the time, but if I commented, it didn't get to you. I remember thinking about telling you about how, when I was in Italy, I was waiting for a ride and standing next to a mechanic's garage where they fix cars. And one of the mechanics came out and said, “Ah! You youngsters! I want to show you a good lesson. See this? It's a bottle of Coke. Now see what we do with it? We don't drink it. Nobody here would do that! We use this liquid, Coca Cola, to clean off the car engines. It has an acid so strong, it really helps to disolve this dirty grease in the engines. Now remember this, and never drink Coke again!” And he said this in perfect English, too! Well, I'm sorry to say, I still do drink Coke. But I agree with you that water or juice is better.
Sorry, I dont' get it about the mango seeds. Why is it that the seeds from the one swami didn't germinate?
In general, I totally agree with you that the Universe is an interconnected system, and that everything affects everything else. And I also agree that if I do something awful, like steal from my friend, then that must be set aside and healing must occur for me, to my friend, and all affected things, which would be the whole Universe, wouldn't it, really? I think the real issue is whether I perceive the act of killing a bug as morally wrong. I just don't. Oh well. :) But thank you for your generous and caring gesture in innitiating a fast on my behalf. As you observed, this caused more general warmth and communication, learning and exchange of ideas, and greater caring. And I think this is good for both us and the Universe. You are a sweet person, Janak, and I'm glad you are my friend.
hahaha
i once had a “present”, “in the zone” “word” with the bug..
hmmm…
seemed to listen but then ran off when i tried to touch.
Apparently, we connected for quite a time, hehe. Having the word with the bug seemed very doable and heartfelt at the time, since they were also fast becoming “unsightly”. What pissed me, days later, is that none of what i communicated made sense to him!? her? or their family!
He he he. I'm still trying my patience with'em, hehehe. Huh? Yeah.
Yayyyy, my man Gandhi! “Simple living; high thinking”. I am on this path presently; tell the truth, any divergence is stressing me. I think this is what I'm to do! Thanks for reminding me; Gandhi's my hero.
Do take care. Love, sherri
The one seed that did not germinate was… because the soul inside the seed acheived “ultimate liberation”… by a saints release of good karma when the saint felt fulfiled by eating the mango…
You do know that all seeds have a soul in them… ? it's just that they are sleeping… but every seed, every flower and every living thing has that one small spark in it called a soul….
If it were not so… then it would just be a roting entity… but the fact that a whole plant can grow out of something so small a seed… proves the argument…
I feel that if we do “worldly acts slowly… and Godly ones promptly” then only can we get rid of the pesky ones trying to mess with our lives…. and not to tell you to do, the way i understand is right… but i'm sure if we just slow down on what we think is right, and “our duty” or “our jobs requires us to do that” etc… we will truly realise what hypocrits we are to believe our side of the story all the time….
Ants and other similar creatures recycle dead/decaying stuff… if it wern't for them… the world would be a breading ground of unimmaginable diseases…
Bees cross-polinate flowers… thus giving humans more food…. and keeps the gene pool strrong of plants that are cross polinated..
Mind you that there are the nasty ones too like roaches… but they are your debtors… you can only rid of them telepathically…. you must have “pained” someone somewhere… and so that person generates negative energy… and that negative energy is attracted to a negative energy respondant and you are delivered a dose of negative energy by these crawlers…. once you ask (telepathically) for forgiveness to (imaginary) souls that you have hurt in the past…. the roaches will disapear into thin air… they cannot live where there is no debt collection….
PS. try walking bare foot…. that helps me be one with Earth… if she (the ultimate mother) doesn't mind them crawling around on her surface… then who are we to think otherwise…. :-)
Hi somaticciong, I like your idea! communicating with them, if we can, is the best. I agree with sherri, I like this apporach, too!
Janak, yes. Actually, in WEI magazine they have an aritcle about how a nuclear physicist has developed good arguments for the idea that all matter is basically consciousness. There is soul in everything. The Hawaiian kahunas know how to understand about the souls of rocks. And certainly decay itself, as it is done by microorganisms, has soul. All of us lost in the belly of God.
I love the last sentence above - “All of us lost in the belly of God.”
I would ask, is anything ever lost? Isn't this a SELF-contained thing, this life, seen and unseen. Is there not a balance in all of it, in all parts that are seemingly played, both desirable (good) and undesirable (bad). It is not duality vs. non-duality as they both exist as form & emptiness. Is this just another adventure in missing the point? Is there a point?
Interesting blog.
Great blog!
I have a running joke ( sometimes not funny ) with my loved one that the reason mosquitoes seem to bite him far more than me is because I don't harbor any negative feelings towards them!! (and yes I know about all the research on why mozzies like some people and not others, but I swear my approach is the right one!). I actually feel a bit bad when I kill any bug, and sometimes I do so deliberately. But I don't stay feeling guilty, I usually just say 'sorry' and I do mean it. Perhaps I was a Jain in a past life.
As for someone else paying for your actions.. well, I don't know about that. I'd probably feel guilty that Janak was doing it, even if I didn't feel it was necessary…. and what a lovely idea to do a kind thing in someone elses name, something that maybe pushes our boundaries a little.
Back to bugs.
I have some interesting experiences with 'bugs' - eg those annoying flies that can't seem to see this enormous wide open window right infront of them? Well, I ask them to leave. They do… 99% of the time.
Then there is Amelia Kinkade who comes across as a total flake, she listens to tarantulas…well, she has been hired by the Queen ( of England) to figure out why a particular horse was not doing well. Amelia figured it out ( his was missing his horse friend - Amelia 'heard' the name of the horse, even though she was not told of him…).
And Karma…
I just read a great little piece in the UK paper, the Saturday Guardian about karma - it refers to Sharon Stone's mention that perhaps the quake in China had to do with karma. I'll quote the whole piece here:
———————————–
What is karma and how does it work?
The actor Sharon Stone is not the first public figure to have invoked the concept of karma. Radiohead, Boy George and John Lennon have all trodden the same path, yet her ill-advised usage of the word has had a far greater impact.
Stone's suggestion that the devastating Chinese earthquake was brought about by Beijing's nastiness to her “very good friend” the Dalai Lama infuriated a top fashion and cosmetics firm - Dior reacted by dropping her from its Chinese advertising - and an economic superpower in one fell swoop.
Karma is a complex idea that is important to Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs. The word means simply “action”, but its meaning is connected with the causes and effects of the choices we make. Our minds are like a blank piece of paper and every action we perform makes a stamp on that piece of paper. The marks become impressions and these grow and develop into experiences. Tibetan Buddhists believe that actions lead to effects and that all our experiences are the effects of previous actions.
Kama Tobgyal, from the Tibetan Buddhist centre Kagyu Samye Dzong London, says: “If you watch a violent movie before you go to bed, you may have nightmares. If you have a warm, intimate conversation with your partner before you sleep you may have a pleasant dream. But these experiences may happen in another life. The idea is to avoid negative actions. From the Buddhist point of view, everything is karma.”
Stone is not the first person to fall foul of a skewed interpretation of karma. The former footballer Glenn Hoddle lost his job as England manager for saying that disabled people were being punished for sins in a previous life. “The karma is working from another lifetime. It is not only people with disabilities. What you sow, you have to reap.”
Stone and Hoddle may have thinking of Hindu karma, which is different to the Buddhist one. In the Hindu tradition, broadly speaking, beneficial effects are the result of beneficial actions and negative effects are the fruit of negative actions.Riazat Butt
——————————–
Love!
Hi Sandra! Thank you for your connecting here, and for sharing your thoughts about bugs and karma. Karma can really bug us, eh? :) As you say, it's very complex. I'm willing to let go and simply do what I think is best. For some reason it's easier for me to feel sorry about killing mosquitos and fies than about killing roaches. I think that's because i'm AFRAID of the physical form of the roach. They creep me out. It's an interesting study in fear-based action, and definitely not a trivial topic. I think any corner of the universe can lead us to significant insight, if we follow the bread crumbs… Namaste!